Tar Sands: The Oil Junkie's Last Fix, Part 2

This is part 2 of a guest post by Chris Nelder. It was originally written for Friday's Energy and Capital.

This is a continuation of my previous article (Tar Sands: The Oil Junkie's Last Fix, Part 1) on the challenges facing the Canadian tar sands, in which we looked at the cost and financing issues. Today we look at water, energy, labour and the environment.

Water

Water is another major problem. Tar sands plants typically use two to four barrels of water to extract a barrel of oil. Currently, the water consumption is enough to sustain a city of two million people every year. And after it's been through the process, the water is toxic with contaminants, so it cannot be released into the environment. Some of it is reused, but vast amounts of it are pumped into enormous settlement ponds to be retained as toxic waste.

These "ponds" are actually the largest bodies of water in the region--big enough to be seen from space--and some of the world's largest man-made ponds overall, with miles of surface area. It may take 200 years for the smallest particles to settle down to the bottom of this toxic brew, which also contains very high levels of heavy metals and other health-threatening elements.

According to a recent joint study by the University of Toronto and the University of Alberta, the projected expansion of the tar sands projects will kill the Athabasca River, the only abundant source of water in the area. "Projected bitumen extraction in the oil sands will require too much water to sustain the river and Athabasca Delta, especially with the effects of predicted climate warning," the study said. If that amount of water were used, they warned, it would threaten the water supply of two northern territories, 300,000 aboriginal people and Canada's largest watershed, the Mackenzie River Basin.

Licensed surface water allocations from the Athabasca River and its tributaries. (2005 data, Pembina Institute)

With the tar sands currently producing at the rate of about 1 million barrels per day (mbpd), water levels in the river are already going down. Given such intense water demands, it's completely unclear how production can be increased to the target of 4 mbpd by 2020.

One of the authors of the study, Dr. David Schindler, who is considered Canada's top water expert, says that between the climate change-induced reduction in Athabasca flows and the seven major tar sands plants either operating or planned, the river's water "is fully allocated, possibly over allocated, right now."

Energy

Perhaps the most paradoxical part of the tar sands receding horizons problem is the need for energy.

Typically, tar sands are produced using natural gas to heat the steam that drives the oil out of the sands. It takes a lot of gas to do this: over 1,000 cubic feet--about $8 worth--to produce one barrel of bitumen.

At the current production level of about 1 mpbd, the tar sands operations consume about 4% of Canada's natural gas supply. So quadrupling production would consume fully 16% of the supply, and completely max out the gas market. Nearly all estimates for tar sands operations over the next ten years exceed the projections for available amounts of natural gas!

Canada's natural gas supplies are running out fast. Numbers from the EIA and the NEB suggest that its proven reserves of natural gas will be gone in about eight years.

And plans for pipelines to bring natural gas from Alaska and the Mackenzie valley are currently mired in environmental and financial quagmires. The projected costs for the Mackenzie pipeline have risen so fast that the oil companies have put the project on hold, demanding that Ottawa pay a substantial part of the costs. Ottawa so far has refused.

But the entire planned capacity (1.9 bcf/d) of the proposed Mackenzie Valley gas pipeline could only support tar sands production up to about 3 mpbd by 2025.

Professor Kjell Aleklett of Uppsala University, a recognized expert on tar sands, puts it bluntly: "The supply of natural gas in North America is not adequate to support a future Canadian oil sands industry with today's dependence on natural gas."

After gas, the next obvious choice is nuclear energy--building dozens of nuclear plants to generate the heat needed to create the steam needed to drive the hydrocarbons out of the sand. But by any sober assessment of that alternative, it would probably take on the order of ten years or more to build out that kind of nuclear capacity, with skyrocketing costs. And then you still have the problem of water to turn into steam and cool the nuclear plants.

What's worse, depending on a host of factors, the total Energy Return On Investment (the energy profit, if you will) for tar sands production is typically only around 5% to 10%. In fact, it has even been suggested that the EROI is negative in some cases. But with the current circumstances of stranded and otherwise useless natural gas, oil over $60, an extremely tight global oil supply situation, and a host of complicating factors like tax relief (which we'll get to in a moment), it still makes economic sense, if no other kind.

Even if an alternative energy source could be found, there is still the matter of the hydrogen needed to upgrade the produced bitumen into a useful hydrocarbon. That hydrogen is currently derived from natural gas. According to Princeton geology professor emeritus and peak oil author Ken Deffeyes, there is just one alternative source of hydrogen: water. But as we already know, there's no excess water.

In the interest of scientific fairness, there are some new in situ processes for tar sands harvesting, like "toe heel air injection," which have been demonstrated to produce more bitumen than the traditional process with far lower energy and water inputs. But these processes are still in the experimental phase and have not been proven against the various challenging geological structures in which tar sands are found. They are certainly in no immediate position to become commercially viable, let alone saviors.

Labor

Not only is there a perennial shortage of skilled labor, even at average salaries above $100,000 per year, but a general strike now seems unavoidable this fall. Seven out of 25 key construction unions in Alberta--including carpenters--are contemplating their first multi-trade strike in almost 30 years. They're no fools; seeing the oil and gas companies racking up record profits in the billions per quarter, they want a bigger piece of the action.

Though wages are high--a journeyman electrician can make $35 an hour--conditions are tough, too. Labor is demanding quality of life concessions, noting the horrors of traveling to and from and living anywhere near the northeastern Alberta work camps, where the living conditions have been compared to the Klondike gold rush days. It's a rough place of rough men, and crime and drug problems are on the rise.

According to one former oil sands worker, a mobile home trailer is going for $425,000. Workers are bunking in residents' basements and parking on their lawns, for lack of anywhere else to sleep or park. And sometimes the fumes coming off the slurry ponds are so bad that the schools have to be shut down. Stores have to shut down for several hours a day for lack of employees. There is a desperate shortage of schools, hotel rooms, police, firemen, and just about everything else that makes a town.

Indeed, the mayor of Fort McMurray, the largest city in the Athabascan region, warned that she could not promise a community that was safe and functional, and had no idea how the expected thousands of additional workers could be housed.

Environment

Naturally, the biggest hit from tar sands operations will be taken by the environment--the one player in this drama that can't speak for itself or charge anyone anything for the damages it suffers.

Former Alberta premier Peter Lougheed recently warned that a clash over the environmental cost of the oil sands is inevitable, and that this will be fought all the way to Canada's Supreme Court. A primeval boreal forest the size of Florida is being utterly destroyed beyond repair, while highly toxic sludge ends up in gargantuan tailings ponds even though laws stipulate that the land must be returned to its original state.

So far, the industry pays next to nothing for causing this environmental destruction, but it seems certain that this won't last, particularly in view of stricter federal environmental legislation.

The Junkie's Last Fix

Now, the above story wasn't easy to piece together. The press is almost universally in favor of anything that sounds like "more oil," no matter the cost. Nearly all we hear about is X billion in new investment announced by Y Company. We don't hear too much about the cancellations, delays and cost overruns. A full reckoning is rarely attempted.

But that's what we're here for.

So let's reckon this.

What we have here is arguably the most environmentally destructive activity man has ever attempted, with a compliant government, insatiable demand and an endless supply of capital turning it into "a speeding car with a gas pedal and no brakes." It sucks down critical and rapidly diminishing amounts of both natural gas and water, paying neither for its consumption of natural capital nor its environmental destruction, to the utter detriment of its host. And all to eke out maybe a 10% profit, if it turns out that the books haven't been cooked, and if the taxation structure remains a flat-out giveaway.

All of that, just to produce enough oil to offset the declining conventional oil production in the rest of Canada. Maybe.

And that, my friends, is what I call the oil junkie's last fix. An act of sheer desperation to stave off just a little longer that inevitable day when we are forced to realize that the fossil fuel game is truly over. No more rabbits in the hat. Done.

In the July 2006 issue of Rolling Stone, Al Gore called the tar sands "crazy," a huge waste of energy and an eyesore on the landscape of Western Canada. "For every barrel of oil they extract there, they have to use enough natural gas to heat a family's home for four days," Mr. Gore told the magazine. "And they have to tear up four tons of landscape, all for one barrel of oil. It is truly nuts. But you know, junkies find veins in their toes. It seems reasonable, to them, because they've lost sight of the rest of their lives."

Until next time,

Chris

Many thanks to Roel Mayer for his contributions to this piece.

Maybe we could recycle the tires on those vehicles for a couple more barrels ...

The problem will solve itself.
But not in a nice way.

All,

I have been out of town and extremely busy for the last several days, and so I haven't been able to reply to the comments until today. Please see below.

For further analysis of relevant statistics on tar sands, I would also refer readers to last year's excellent post by Khebab.

--Chris
Energy consultant, writer, blogger www.getreallist.com

Chris

Thank you for an excellent pair of Key Posts! Of course they are not likely to do any good before the oil junkies have blown up that last toe vein and are just stabbing themselves senselessly looking for another place to fix.

Its time to do the heretofore unthinkable, and demand that no more internal combustion engines be sold new in North America, and go full tilt into Alan Drake's Electrification of Rail program. Its the only possibility that has a real chance of success while helping society transition to the inevitable, renewables as the only energy available.

The problem is that its going to require real sacrifice by every industry in the world, and every family in North America. We are going to have to ask the oil industry to change by shrinking by 70% by changing away from fuel refining and marketing to industries like marketing electricity from renewable energy. Its going to kick the value out of every vehicle in North America while many people still owe years of payments. Its going to add another huge area of worthless loans to a financial industry thats already imploding. And in order to stop the exponential growth overseas we are going to have to help the people of Africa and Asia leapfrog fossil fuel to renewables. Only prosperous people cut birthrates, and it will do no good unless we can help them stop what appears to be a drive off the cliff as world demand continues to grow as supply contracts.

Its not unthinkable-society has put entire industries out of business before-look at asbestos-and tried to slowly choke off others, such as tobacco or nuclear until they started expanding again as we looked for another toe vein.

But real patriots have acted against their personal economic interests before with the right inspiration and leadership.

I urge everyone to read the 50 page pdf history of the Big Inch and Little Inch pipelines during the second world war (google Big Inch Oil Pipeline) and also remember the Marshall Plan, where the US aided Germany and Japan to rebuild into modern industrial countries after the horrors of WW II. The Oil business actually destroyed millions of dollars worth of pipelines to get the steel and valves to build the first transcontinental oil and products lines at less than its cost so the Allies had enough fuel to invade Europe. The industrial might of the US was used to rebuild the industries of Europe so that they could become our only real economic competitors because we realised that was the only way to stop the horrible wars that kept convulsing the world.

And its now our turn to step up to the plate, but we can't do it without actual leadership that transcends the normal boundries that are used to seperate the world's people. Global warming isn't a liberal or conservative issue. Peak cheap energy isn't a Republican or Democrat issue. And living on the same planet with billions of hopeless poor people that have a huge population growth transcends any label. But we have to get actual leaders on this, not demagogues that want to divide us so they can rule us,.
Bob Ebersole

Actually, China cut their fertility rate to replacement level while they were still desperately poor, in the 1970s.
The missing ingredient in much of the world is a truly powerful state.

Absolutely superb piece.

Every economist and every trader who sits in a clean little cubicle somewhere on the planet should visit the tar sands. Smell it up close and personal.

What are we doing? In God's name, what are we doing?

What in the world is going to be the true cost of this last little rabbit?

We should also be concerned about being overwhelmed by the avalanche from the dead-bunny mountain of previous consumption.

When you're done pulling out your hair. Get into the garage and dust off that bicycle. Get a bus pass.

Driving a car is explicit support for tar sand development. Make it a moral issue. BECAUSE IT IS.

Now why would anyone have to go there and smell it for, all one has to do is look at those old promo pieces Suncor put out where the oil sands and wind power walked hand in hand transitioning into a brave new and clean future. Yes I bought that pap but at least I got out a year ago when that smell reached me, in my little cubicle. I thought I was investing in a company that saw the end of oil and was moving to a clean power. I don't even believe in clean power any more. Every bit of new 'alternate' energy we come up with is not going IMO into saving the planet just into adding that much more energy for us to abuse it with.

Sorry for the rant and really it isn't directed at you personally, just a general shotgun blast. I just got pissed with the sudden thought of all the people who eat chicken but say they wouldn't kill a fly. No one ever looks at what their pension plans hold(or even RRSP mutual funds which are pretty darn transparent).

BTW I am not a professional trader if that is any excuse for not taking a closer look where my investment money was going.

Smell it up close and personal.

Yes, please. What kicked me over from opposed to oil reliance for intellectual reasons to disgusted by the sight of it was being a passenger in a car as it drove past an oil refinery. That smell was unforgettably foul, worse even than mountains of uncomposted cow dung. Most people associate memories strongly with smells, so I think it's a very effective way to drive a point home and make it stick.

Would it be possible to use a passive filter to reclaim the toxic water, as in a solar distiller? Angled clear plastic or glass, some tubing, and whatever the sun supplies.

The wastewater problem is indeed huge, but it doesn't have to be as bad as it currently is. I would probably be correct in surmising that the composition of this wastewater is not unlike a combination of petroleum refining effluent and coal process wastewater.

As such, a variety of conventional wastewater treatment technologies could be applied to greatly improve the quality of this effluent. Coagulation and seettling followed by metals precipitation, sand filtration, and then some form of biological treatment, with perhaps a carbon adsorption 'polishing' step would probably effect at least a 97% removal of most the various chemical constituents.

Given the large volume of wastewater generated, such a treatment system would not be cheap, but it is technically doable. I am a bit surprised (though perhaps I shouldn't be) that the Canadian government didn't require some form of wastewater treatment to be in place even before the whole thing went into operation. In any event, some form of treatment is inevitable, as they cannot store this wastewater in ponds forever. And the longer they wait, the harder it is going to be, because they will not only have to treat the new wastewater as it is being generated, but also will have to work off the huge inventory of old wastewater accumulated in those ponds.

Even if a treatment system is 99% effective, the absolute pollutant loading in terms of lbs per day of the various chemical constituents will still be large and will still represent a considerable negative environmental impact on whatever receiving stream it is discharged to.

While they can make it not as bad, but they can never make it good.

Hello everybody. Has anyone seen evidence that the oil industry invests anything at all in order to pilot test and foster development of the technologies they need in order to solve the crucial water problem? I somehow doubt that this is an active area of industry investment. If a technology were proven, then the industry would experience pressure to actually use it. Without adequate technology, it is easier to make the argument to simply release the polluted water back into the rivers, or to create huge artificial lakes full of polluted water

Below is a reference to an article on research done by Sandia National Laboratories, on the bench scale, on a technology, called capacitive deionizatsion, to handle a similiar water problem, produced water from Coal Bed Methane. Worthwhile technologies like this are well documented to exist, but have received insufficient pilot testing. Competent due diligence has also been lacking. To date, the state of New Mexico paid for a small pilot to test this particular technology for arsenic remediation.

http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag/40/i03/html/020106tech.htm...

Sandia's website on this new technology, called capacitive deionization, may be found at

http://www.sandia.gov/water/desal/research-dev/alternative-tech.html

dragonfly -

As a (retired) environmental engineer, I would have to say that treating the wastewater from tar sand operations to an acceptable level does not require any exotic new technology, but rather the application of existing best available treatment technology, based thorough pilot testing and good engineering design.

The problem, of course, is that currently nobody is making them do anything other than hold the wastewater in giant earthen impoundments. As I said, this practice cannot go on forever, and eventually some form of treatment will be required. The situation reminds me of US industry in the early 1970s: if a gun was not held to their heads to install pollution control systems, it just wouldn't happen.

I suspect that the area where some real innovation can be applied is treated wastewater recycle. I don't know enough about the tar sand process to be specific, but I would think that for some of the operations water quality is not that critical and might be successfully served by (partially) recycled wastewater. As water availability appears to be one of the limiting factors in Alberta tar sand operations, I would think that there should be a strong incentive to explore wastewater recycle possibilities.

Thank you for the comment. One would think that what you say is true, that there would be a strong incentive to explore waste water recycle opportunities. Howevr, I don't see much evidence that industry has agressively or even non agressively, pursued opportunities to innovate here.

A key technical concern when recycling waste water is the rapid build up of salinity, removal of which becomes the limiting step. Therefore, not only does salinity ( and "t.d.s.", total dissolved solids) need to be removed, but it needs to be done with high water recovery, in order to maintain the aim of saving water. Technologies that treat t.d.s are few, and tend to be older than the alphabet. Use of any existing technologies in order to achieve high recoveries with produced water, which is likely to have compounds that would tend to foul water treatment systems, would in and of itself be an experiment.
Therefore, any technology would be a new technology when used under these conditions. Some of the older technologies, such as R.O ,have been tested to death., while promising new technologies have received insufficient or incompetent due diligence

Generally, salinity build-up only becomes a problem when one goes to very 'tight' recycle systems.

I would venture that if the tar sands process can use recycled wastewater at all, it would probably be able to tolerate at least a 75 percent recycle rate, which would reduce net water consumption by a factor of about four.

However, once one tries to tighten up the wastewater recycle much beyond that point, various problems with salinity, corrosion, scaling, bio deposits, etc. can rear their ugly head.

I think that given the critical water supply situation in the Alberta tar sands, wastewater recycle is an area well worth exploring.

It will never be cleaned up. What the businesses are doing is stockpiling the waste in holding ponds and piles; when the bonanza is over, they will claim they don't have the money to clean it up and/or go belly up and dissolve.

cfm in Gray, ME

"a solar distiller?"

Unfortunately, this is probably just wishful thinking. Alberta is rather closer to the pole than to the equator and solar is notably less effective there than is commonly thought.

My wishful thinking goes for heating using radioactive waste from nuclear power plants. Radioactive waste in suitably engineered containers can become quite hot from the radioactivity. Engineering problems that I can forsee are corrosive compounds in the water and in the radioactive waste eating away at the containers, leading to radioactive release into the environment.

I got back from Alaska a few weeks ago. You'd be quite surprised how much sunshine they get on the summer side of the year between the equinoxes. Granted, it's not Las Vegas hot, but it does shine for 19 hours per day.
Concentrate it, and there's the distiller.

Nice one geek! You have outdone sarcasm itself itself. We need a new word here, maybe make it out of 'corrosive sarcasm'...corsarc??

There's not enough direct sunlight that high in the artic, pus immense amounts of water. 6 barrels per barel of bitumen, and a barrel equals 42 gallons. So thats roughly 250 gallons of fresh water per barrel a day of production which is 1 million barrels of syncrude a day. My hand calculator is out of zeroes. Bob Ebersole

This is why I suggested the filter be "passive" and use "whatever the sun supplies". It's the cost of the setup, and no continuing energy costs, and runs unattended, and better than nothing.

You are probably assuming that a certain rate of evaporation needs to be achieved to be successful. Currently, the amount of captured evaporation is zero. Any amount of capture is infinite improvement compared to where we stand now.

Instead of angled glass, domed glass could be used to trap additional heat and increase the rate of evaporation.

Hand calculator? You mean you can't do that computation in your head? 252 million gallons of fresh water per day. What if passive evaporative reclamation could knock even half a percent off of that for less than the per-gallon cost of the current water supply?

Solar water distillation is slowwww. There is no way it could manage the amount of water we're talking about here, unless it were an installation occupying hundreds of acres (and addding significantly to the costs).

Various forms of water treatment are obviously possible, but there is absolutely zero impetus to require them--and I'd be willing to bet that if they were required, it would seriously put a crimp in the tiny profit realized by tar sands ops.

In any case, even if the water problem could be solved, it would still leave the natural gas problem. And the studies I've read that actually attempted to do the math on using nuclear instead have concluded unanimously that there is no way that the number of nuclear plants required to increase production signficantly, beyond what's possible with the available natural gas, would ever be built--not in the next few decades, anyway. Though I would entertain any references to serious studies (e.g., more than wild hand-waving) that show otherwise.

--Chris
Energy consultant, writer, blogger www.getreallist.com

Though I would entertain any references to serious studies (e.g., more than wild hand-waving)

So would I. Please link these "serious studies" you claim conclude nuclear-powered tar sands extraction is infeasible.

Providing documentation is not only for people who disagree with you.

No docs Doc, so this might not be fact at all, but I have been led to understand that a rather heavy duty electrical grid is necessary with nuclear plants for safety sake and that the prairies, even now, still have more grouse than gauss.

My perspective on the water issue probably won't be popular here, but I suspect I've read more about it and heard more presentations on it than most posters in this thread. Like Pitt the Elder, I also want to say up front that I'm not an apologist for development of the oil sands and that much of the development scenario bothers me.

That said, I take exception to the depiction of withdrawal in the water licencing diagram near the top of the key post. Yes, the oil sands industry is the largest user of fresh water in the basin. However, relatively speaking, that use is not large, a point missing from the discusssion. Here I'm going to quote a small section of text from the 2005 annual report of the multi-stakeholder group responsible for something called the Regional Aquatic Monitoring Program, an effort supervised by Alberta Environment partly to provide a scientific basis for discussions like the one we're having here. The full report can be downloaded from http://www.ramp-alberta.org/archive.php.

Total water intake from the Athabasca River by the significant oil sands users of Athabasca River water (Suncor, Syncrude and Albian Sands) averaged approximately 3.14 m3/s in 2005 (Figure 2.4-3); this is very similar to withdrawals from 2000 to 2004, in which the average intake from the Athabasca River was 3.1 m3/s (RAMP 2005a). Average discharge to the Athabasca River in 2005 was about 8% of the intake, at 0.27 m3/s. The net 2005 intake (withdrawal less discharge) was 0.37% of the average discharge of the Athabasca River in 2005. The highest net intake, as a percentage of Athabasca River flow, was slightly more than 2%, which occurred in mid-February of 2005.

There is a discrepancy in your article and one thing you fail to mention as the key driver of the oil sands: profits. You say "all to eke out maybe a 10% profit," yet they are making billions and billions in profits, likely more as oil prices inevitably increase in coming years. If production is ever ramped up to 3-4 mbpd, they would be making staggering amounts of money at today's oil prices. And we must realize that these projects are not so much more ambitious than the extremely deepwater operations in the GOM, North Sea, etc.

Sina,

If you would like to provide some documentation on the companies that are making "billions and billions in profits" from oil sands operations, I would be happy to review it.

If you believe that production can be ramped up to 3-4x what it is today at today's oil prices then you don't understand the dynamic of receding horizons. It just doesn't work that way.

--Chris
Energy consultant, writer, blogger www.getreallist.com

If you would like to provide some documentation on the companies that are making "billions and billions in profits" from oil sands operations, I would be happy to review it.

Shell made $651M in profit from oil sands in 2006 alone, and their operations give them a profit of $22 per barrel. Across an industry of ~350Mbbl/yr, that'd suggest somewhere in the neighbourhood of $7B of profits per year.

Even if we assume without evidence that Shell's operations are unusually profitable, that's still strong evidence for billions in profits per year for the companies working the oil sands.

If you believe that production can be ramped up to 3-4x what it is today at today's oil prices then you don't understand the dynamic of receding horizons. It just doesn't work that way.

Care to provide some evidence to support your claim? The need for documentation goes both ways, after all.

Sorry, Pitt, I have no more time to waste on the likes of you.

--Chris
Energy consultant, writer, blogger www.getreallist.com

All I ask is that you back up your claims with evidence. How does that threaten your self-described goal of helping and educating people?

Why are you so unwilling to provide evidence to back up your claims?

Oooooohhhhh... Having gone to the web site you work for and seeing what you left off of this version, I think I may have some idea why. The concluding section in the original version was:

Moving On--To Profit

For those of us who have not lost sight of the rest of our lives, can we move on?

There is another possible path than this fossil fuel death march!

It's called renewables. If we start now, and commit ourselves absolutely to transforming our infrastructure to an all-electric regime powered by renewables within say, 50 years, I think we just might have enough traditional gas in the tank to make that happen. And still have a little left over for the highest uses of petroleum, like making plastics and other needs that renewable electricity cannot satisfy.

But there is no time to lose.

That's why the wind and solar industries as a whole are posting 25%-plus growth rates and--let me assure you--profit far in excess of a lousy 10%, and without risking $100 billion to make it!

That's why geothermal stocks like Raser Technologies are posting 100% gains in a year:

RZ chart

And that's why you really should consider joining us for the Angel Research "Profit from the Peak" Summit in Philadelphia next month. I'll be speaking on the big picture of energy, and what I believe are the truly viable investments for the future of energy, above and beyond the hype. It's not too late to sign up for the conference. You can learn more about it here.

I suppose that explains why you were so ready to accuse me of being an industry shill - it interfered with you pimping your $800-per-person seminar.

When people are paying you through the nose for your "wisdom", I guess you might be a little less concerned about what the evidence actually says.

Pitt, once again you are going off and making claims about things you don't actually know anything about.

In the interest of keeping the record straight--only, because I have no time or interest in continuing to argue with you--that final bit about the investing seminar was not left off by me, but by the TOD editors who re-posted it here. In fact I restored that bit when I re-posted these articles to my blog. So you can stand down on that.

Speaking of reading carefully, you should also note that I have never accused you of being an industry shill...although that would not surprise me.

It quite amuses me that you continue to claim that I don't offer sources and evidence even after I have offered sources and evidence and explained why I do not routinely include them in my articles (because my publisher doesn't want them).

Your rants are repetitive and full of unfounded insinuations and I find them quite boring. Carry on trying to hijack this thread if that floats your boat, I won't be around to watch it. Hopefully other readers will find better things to do with their time as well.

--Chris

Energy consultant, writer, blogger www.getreallist.com

that final bit about the investing seminar was not left off by me, but by the TOD editors who re-posted it here.

I stand corrected.

However, I don't see that that makes much difference. That last section makes the piece read like it's intended to scare people into believing they need to attend your seminar. "The world is going to hell but I can save you!" has been used by snake oil salesmen for centuries.

Speaking of reading carefully, you should also note that I have never accused you of being an industry shill.

Let's look at that:

You wasted your efforts on a professional concern troll.

I know that's what Pitt is.

You clearly agreed that I was a "professional concern troll". If that does not mean industry shill, then what does it mean?

It quite amuses me that you continue to claim that I don't offer sources and evidence even after I have offered sources and evidence

Not for any of the claims I've asked for evidence about.

You've provided this German report to say that SAGD uses a lot of energy - which everyone already agreed on - and that it has a steam-to-oil ratio of 3 or less, which is utterly meaningless because (a) you haven't given any indication of what that means in terms of water consumption, and (b) that says nothing about recycling of water which, as had already been pointed out to you, allows 90-95% of water used for SAGD to be reused.

So that "source" addressed none of my complaints, and provided no useful information. It was, though, the only reliable source you provided.

You provided Google as a source, saying that 39,000 hits for something showed you were right, notwithstanding what the National Energy Board's report said on the matter. That something is on the internet doesn't mean it's true.

You provided a blog post, from this site, as a source, saying that it supported your 1mcf/bbl contention. That post quoted precisely the same source that I had already given - the NEB report - meaning you added nothing but a layer of obfuscation by citing a second-hand source. More importantly, that source does not say what you claim. Figure 1 shows tar sands oil production, with about 1.3mb/day in 2006; figure 2 shows natural gas consumption, with less than 1.1bcf/day, and simple division shows that to be a number significantly less than 1.0mcf/bbl.

You provided Byron King's article, which simply asserts what you asserted with no evidence or argument. When a private individual says something unsubstantiated in an opinion post, that's not a reputable source for anything other than his own opinion.

Finally, you provided some guy's blog as a "source" for evaluating the THAI process, and that post is again little more than unsourced opinion.

So you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what I mean by "evidence" and "citing sources". Blog posts are not evidence! They're opinion, unless they cite their own sources, in which case you should be citing those. Blogs citing other blogs as "evidence" is as reliable as a game of Telephone...and the whole point of that game is how unreliable it is.

Your rants are repetitive

That would be because you still have not backed up your original claims with evidence!

I'm taking you to task for very specific claims, and you keep trying to weasel out of providing evidence to support them.

Carry on trying to hijack this thread

Hijack?

All I'm trying to do is to get the author of this article to back up the claims he makes in the article. That is wholly on topic and appropriate.

No matter how desperately you wish people would just shut up and believe you.

Thanks Pitt, nicely put.

Great article!

I don't know what deserves the title of the most destructive practice that man has come up with (so far) for extracting energy. Tar sands, or mountaintop removal (to get at coal).

In any event, mountaintop removal is much easier for average people to see and experience. Tar sands is far too remote for most people to experience, so to average people it is just another way to get oil.