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116 comments on The Finance Round-Up: November 16th 2007
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116 comments on The Finance Round-Up: November 16th 2007
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
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IMO it would depend on who you are and how long down the road you are looking.
Mexico is basically imploding now, even without a sub prime crisis, so a couple more bips against them from the north and it could get real ugly.
On the other hand their society is much less diverse and clearly outlined, so these type of conflicts might be solved a lot quicker.
Add the quasi feudal system the drug cartels have established and it becomes clear that it would depend on how the cookie crumbles.
Generally speaking one would be best off where one knows the "lay of the land" the best, where one can disappear in the background noise and where one has the strongest support network.
I have friends in Mexico, but I would expect them to last about 10 minutes if the fur really starts flying.
I don't think Mexico will be the place to be given that 40% of government revenues come from oil and Cantrell production has already peaked. I think all those detention centers that Halliburton is building on the border are in case Mexico comes apart completely and there is a mass exodus. I would go to Canada instead. Cold, but politically stable and plenty of fresh water and oil.
Mexico has big exports of oil money, which is going away before the next presidential term because Cantarell production is collapsing, and remittances from America, which is going away before the next presidential term because the dollar is colllapsing.
Re: Mexico and remitances
I often shop at grocery stores with a high proportion of Mexicans over hre without papers as clients. In Harris County, Tx (Houston, Deer Park, Pasadena and a host of smaller suburbs) around 20% of the population is here without papers, so-called illegal immigrants. Many of these folks send cash home to Mexico and other countries to help the wives, mothers and children left behind in the villages. Its the top source of foreign exchange for the average Mexican and is preventing famine in lots of villages.
The Friday and Saturday lines at these stores for check-cashing ect. are down by about 2/3rds. The reason there have been few lay-offs in the construction downterm is the use of all the undocumented workers-they are not reported, so their lay-offs and unemployment doesn't show up on the statistics. The employers pay around $8 per hour for the workers, but they save by not paying social security, purchasing Workman's Compensation or Health insurance and the undocumented workers can be easily exploited and abused with improper equipment and unsafe jobs. Who in their right mind is going to work cleaning tanks of carcinogenic goop? so the petrochemical refiner hires a cotroctor who hires a sub-contractor who isn't picky about papers .
This money is the very tenuous lifeline that keeps a whole lot of village communities in Mexico afloat. In the last few years the main revolutionary activity is in states in central and southern Mexico-Oaxaca, Chiapas, Guerro, Tobasco. The states in the north are controlled by the drug lords. As conditions remain miserable or become worse since NAFTA, emmegration to the US has been a safety valve. The men and women who come to the US are the very best people in Mexico. They may not be very educated, but they have a strong sense of duty to their familiy. They will do any kind of labor to fulfil their obligations, and endure miserable living conditions by camping on the floor of a house that rents to wetbacks a bed space for $50-$100 a week eating tortillas, canned beans and sardines. But, because they are up here and importing their childrn, wives, brothers, sisters as quickly as they can there isn't a big enough base of people who want a real change to grab the power from the rich men who own Mexico still living in Mexico. Its a safety valve.
The Lou Dobbs Know Nothing anti-illegal immigrant stance has stuck the escape valve closed. The more effective the paramilitary militias are in throwing immigrants out of the US, the more misery in central and southern Mexico.
My last name, Ebersole is a Pennsylvania Dutch name. I am descended from one of six brothers that immigrated to Lancaster County. They took as their last name the name of the village that they came from in the Canton of Apenzell (SP?), which shows they were peasant farmers and apparently sent money home to help each other immigrate, and although they were Mennonites, a variety of Anabaptists, came for economic opportunity. They got to the 13 Colonies before there was much restriction on immigration. They are not a lot different from the Mexicans and Central Americans that are coming over here now.
I'm a big believer in learning history, because if I reflrvt on history and my current actions and behavior I can often see better ways of taking action. I don't think that history repeats itself, but human reactions to many similar life situations can show us more useful ways of behaving. Peak Oil is a unique world event, but changing situations altered by prior human behavir isn't unique. Around here people often quote authors like Jevon or Diamond who are trying to do the same thing-determine the best courses of action based on human history. They are far from being the first historians to take this approach. But, we need to go a step or two farther when we read and absorb these histories and try to see how our lives fit in. This approach was the approach of Confucious, the Chinese philosopher from the 4th century B.C.E. and also a number of religeous teachers like Jesus. When you take away the superstition there's a good set of techniques for dealing with a lot of human problems.One of these is the concept of stewardship-we don't own the earth, but are rather entrusted with it for the benefit of god. I don't know whether god made man, but I do know that man makes god-we all have different concepts, often contradictory. But we do have a duty IMHO to leave the world a better place and to help each other as much as possible. In the industrial west we never assumed our duties and obligations to each other and to the world as we should, and the path isn't occult.Its pretty obvious to any person who reflects on the world that our root problem is overpopulation, that climate change because of human behavior would be greatly reduced if we had a population close to the sustainable population of the earth. Its also clear that where the population increase is happening is amoung the destitute and uneducated-the 1.6 billion people who don't have any access to electricity, living hand to mouth and not educating their children. These poor starving children are the pool from which fanatics recruit suicide bombers. Hope is a necessity in the human mental balance. If they ncan't have hope from economic expectations, they seek the solace of the christian Kingdom of Heaven or the 13th Imman if Shia or the 72 virgins if Sunni. Its also doubtful that peak oil would be an urgent problem with 1/3rd as many consumers as today.
Its very clear-we need to educate the children of themost hopeless people on the planet, to get them sustainable electricity and access to the internet and the hope that they will become prosperous too.
Bob Ebersole
Migrant Money Flow: A $300 Billion Current
No one is going to be immune from the coming crisis.
Some of them are. Some of them are drug-dealers, serial killers, and other assorted criminals fleeing trouble in their home towns. Just like in any other group of people you might pick, there are good and bad.
That is simply not true. Studies have shown that it's not poverty that creates suicide bombers. It's occupation. The suicide bombers in Israel are often from the middle class, even upper class professionals. You even have the Palestinian equivalent of soccer moms doing it, leaving their children motherless. This is not an economic phenomenon.
If not for peak oil, I would think that was a good idea. With peak oil looming (or in the rear-view mirror), it's impossible. We'll be hard pressed to keep our own lights on.
The suicide bombers ... is not an economic phenomenon.
Lack of access to a court of law where grievances can be addressed leads to asymetric warfare.
Yes. We're fooling ourselves if we think providing for people economically will prevent violence. That's what the Israelis thought. There were a lot of good intentions when they took over the occupied territories. They were going to build infrastructure: roads, water, sewer, electricity - and lift the Palestinians out of poverty. But the Palestinians were strangely ungrateful.
Reminds me of The Life of Brian:
Please excuse my entering the fray on a sour note but, Leanan my dear, I think with that rather Freudian slip showing your argument is reduced to naked balderdash.
Feed the belly and empty the mind and the kingdom will be secure.
But on the other hand true civilizations do not live by Big Macs alone.
( BTW for fun, see Noam Chomsky about what the USA and the Israelis get up to)
I'd respond, but I have no clue what you are trying to say.
See Klee:)
In that case, I think you need to adjust your irony detectors and re-read my posts. ;-)
Fair enough and will adjust, but to be kind on your part, with this life so fraught with care and massive information overload, your irony be not quite so flat ironed. A few more ruffles to warn the dilettante if you would be so kind.
Or speaking more literally, I apologize for the misreading of yours. I was reading the Stoneleigh for the financial and glossing on through when I came to what I considered a jarring political clanger and made that inappropriate comment. Sorry:)
I have several truly uncivilized friends. Thanks for the sound byte!
Gotta have some whoppers and jumbo jacks too for variety.
Robert a Tucson
I haven't escaped from reality. I have a daypass.
Yes, After all the Israelis were so kind as to appropriate their land for settlements and prohibit them from ruling themselves.
That was exactly my point. As I stated further up the thread, it's not poverty that creates suicide bombers. It's occupation.
And the only reason we are occupying the Middle East is because of the oil.
Actually, I recently read that 48% of the Israeli population now lives in the part occupied in 1967.
Furthermore, they occupy the more valuable and fertile areas. The Palestinians have been moved to a large number of ghettos that are largely isolated from one another.
I repeat here a famous interview with Golda Meir - who was Israel's Prime Minister from 1969-1974
How exactly can you have "good intentions" when you pretend that a people does not exist?
It is a bit like the British pretending that Australia did not have any inhabitants when they arrived.
Golda Meir was born in Russia and brought up in the USA
The population of Israel is 7 million. Of that, 200,000 Jews live in eastern part of Jerusalem, 200,000 in the rest of the west bank, and about 20,000 on the Golan heights. That's about 7 percent.
So I'm a sappy liberal. Let me give you a slightly more conservative reason for aiding them, particularly with renewable power. If we help them leap-frog the fossil fuel stage of industrialsation there will be more of the limited resources to go around becausewhat little electricity used by them is generated with gasoline or diesel generators. If we can help the poorest villages in India and China get wind turbines, solar concentrators and microhydro they will make progress towards a modern life without building transmission lines and coal plants.
I agree its going to take a lot of money. I've thought of a source, though, by returning to some old-fashioned taxation policy. Hillary Clinton and the Democrat energy plan make noises about a windfall profits tax, and I think the odds of passing one are quite high. My suggestion is to provide exemption the windfall profits based on their investment in sustainable energy or US E&P. How it would work is this: A Windfall Profits tax is calculated by subtracting a predetermined "old oil" price from the world energy price and the difference is payable to the feds as a Windfall Profits Tax. If the government would allow the ol companies to deduct their investment in tertiary recovery, deep production construction costs and Windfarms and Solar facilities from their windfall profits tax liability it would stimulate investment in the areas that benefit our peak energy situation, stimulate US jobs and really speed up the construction of sustainable energy projects. It would also benefit the oil companies by directing them towards a business where they can make a real difference in improving the earth.
Bob Ebersole
FYI Hillary only has the ear of about a third of the Iowa voters, Obama is four points ahead, and Edwards has most of the rest. The odds of the Edwards supporters checking the stats and switching to Obama if Edwards can't make it is very high. The media likes Hillary, but the Democrats willing to slip and slide through snow and ice on 1/3/2008 aren't paying much attention to them.
The 9-11 suicide bombers were not undereducated. They were not poverty-stricken. Dogma can trump economic circumstances.
If after the upcoming chaos strikes and things are really bad,,and I observed a rag tag group coming up my lane here at the farm,,if I didn't know them I would likely chose mexicans over the typical American if they wished to stay and help me or join in and work for whatever returns I might provide or could provide...being nothing but some space and part of my land and a few castoffs....
I have worked with a few and talked to more and have came to the conclusion that they have more in common with my past ancestors than todays almost valueless suburbanites or cityfolk.
It pains me to say that but it happens to be the truth. They do work hard,and have the ethics that we once cherished.
There are two different types of Mexicans. Those with some spanish blood or background in their heritage and those primarily mestizo, or of indian background and perhaps some inbetween. I find them almost all to be worthwhile individuals when I speak to them. If I manage a few words of spanish they are happy to reply in the same vein.
airdale
I have suggested "Reverse Peace Corps Plan" where poor farmers from Third World countries come to the US to show Americans how to implement sustainable farming practices.
Excellent suggestion, West Texas. I have spent a lot of time in rural India and Nepal and there is a lot we could learn from these people. They can likewise learn many things from us.
I live in rural Virginia and there has been an astonishing influx of people from Mexico and central America. Most of them are fine hardworking people. Maybe they can teach us some things to make life more pleasant on the down side of the oil peak.
And peak oil or not, the lights in the schools should be the last to be turned out.
Countries like Romania have large number of highly-skilled old-fashioned peasant farmers. Romania's horse and cart crackdown
I am sure a lot of them would be delighted to get green cards. I guess the H1B could be expanded to include these special skills
have came to the conclusion that they have more in common with my past ancestors than todays almost valueless suburbanites or cityfolk.
Cityfolk have no value? Go ahead, explain further, if you think such a position.
I just hate to throw fuel on this fire, but costal and/or urban folks in this country have changed in the last generation.
Two years ago we just flat stopped selling equipment in GMT -5 and started requiring 50% prepayment on consulting work there. We got burned again and just stopped working there entirely. When every single interaction is an insulting dance of attempted fraud from the guy making a purchase via Ebay clear up to the largest softswitch vendor in North America that speaks volumes about the level of corruption there. Looking at it from my perspective the only way I can tell a New Yorker from an Indonesian is by the accent and I don't have time for the shenanigans that come from either group.
It isn't just our government that is corrupt, its almost all of us, with the rare exception of the culture of rural America, and even that is fraying due to the demon crystal meth. We've rotted from the inside out and most everything about us stinks :-(
Land of the free, home of the brave? Perhaps once, but no longer ...